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Texans / Bears Trade

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Texans / Bears Trade

Post by Bishbosh1985 on Wed Dec 05, 2012 8:20 pm

Bears trade:
CB Tim Jennings
MLB Jovan Belcher
RT Brandon Keith

Texans trade:
MLB Brian Cushing

Bears desperate for a MLB and Texans desperate for several positions.
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Re: Texans / Bears Trade

Post by north highland on Wed Dec 05, 2012 8:25 pm

i agree

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Re: Texans / Bears Trade

Post by brza37 on Wed Dec 05, 2012 8:39 pm

Wow, if there was an award for the ability to turn 3 mediocre players into one star player it should be named after Bish.
This is tough but I guess being able to fill 3 positions in exchange for one star makes it ok.

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Re: Texans / Bears Trade

Post by Bishbosh1985 on Wed Dec 05, 2012 8:40 pm

Thanks for the love boss

And Jennings mediocre? no wonder the Eagles are in such a mess Laughing

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Re: Texans / Bears Trade

Post by Chimpy_Nuts on Wed Dec 05, 2012 9:05 pm

Wow. even for you Bish, this is horrible.

It's not so much the trade, but the fact you signed Belcher and used him to gain advantage on a trade.

I don't need to go into the whole Belcher thing because everybody knows.

I'm not angry, Bish... Just disappointed. Sad
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Re: Texans / Bears Trade

Post by Bishbosh1985 on Wed Dec 05, 2012 9:08 pm

Hang on a mo fella ...... i signed Belcher to start for me now the Beast has retired, the above accord is a happy coincidence.

And if you look closely, good for both teams or it would not have been proposed.

BTW - whats the 'whole Belcher thing'?

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Re: Texans / Bears Trade

Post by Chimpy_Nuts on Wed Dec 05, 2012 9:11 pm

C'mon, mate... You seriously don't know? It's only been headline NFL news all over the weekend.
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Re: Texans / Bears Trade

Post by Bishbosh1985 on Wed Dec 05, 2012 9:18 pm

Ah, sorry - thought you meant in the league.

Tell you what, that is one sad state of affairs - premature death is always tragic and when its 2 fairly young people who's relationship was unpredictable violence is never the answer.

One of the reasons why i detest the US gun laws.

Totally tragic - as for someone playing Belcher in Madden i think thats up to the individual, some may think its bad taste. Some may think its a positive thing.

We all got our opinions.

Plus - if this is a twitchy point i'm happy to see what reaction comes from all the guys in the lge.

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Re: Texans / Bears Trade

Post by Chimpy_Nuts on Wed Dec 05, 2012 9:22 pm

TBH mate, I think calling it distasteful is far too kind.

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Re: Texans / Bears Trade

Post by Bishbosh1985 on Wed Dec 05, 2012 9:30 pm

Your opinion is most valid Chimp. Not necessarily universal though.

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Re: Texans / Bears Trade

Post by Notorious_MH on Wed Dec 05, 2012 11:05 pm

They aren't universal.

What happened was and is tragic but c'mon man this is a game, Bish signed him before the incident IRL because he had a huge need at MLB, what do you want the guy to do, cut him? Someone else will sign him and then what? So the Bears will suffer in a game because of something that happened in real life? I don't agree with that. He's in the game and can't be removed, Max Power agrees with this trade which helps both parties involved so I see nothing distasteful or untoward here.
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Re: Texans / Bears Trade

Post by MeisterEder69 on Wed Dec 05, 2012 11:39 pm

first of all: even if it´s fair trade offer..... i´m against it because its bish who gets a f******* great LB again - god damn it!!! Very Happy

And about the whole Belcher thing. I´m really on bish´s and notorious´s side. It´s very tragic but we play a computer game and noone has a personal connection to him (Correct me if I´m wrong, i would switch wright away my opinion on that).



Last edited by MeisterEder69 on Thu Dec 06, 2012 1:19 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Texans / Bears Trade

Post by Chimpy_Nuts on Wed Dec 05, 2012 11:42 pm

@Notorious_MH wrote:They aren't universal.

What happened was and is tragic but c'mon man this is a game, Bish signed him before the incident IRL
Wrong.

Check your facts.

The new Chiefs owner released him because of what he did in real life. Bish then signed him and traded him.

You're right, it's just a video game. But for me, i think it's disgusting taking advantage of this situation just to better your video game team. The guy murdered the mother of his child. It sickens me.

This has really bothered me more than I thought it would. I came real close to just quitting the league earlier it bothered me that much. With that said, you won't see me around much lately because I actually like this league and want to stick around.
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Re: Texans / Bears Trade

Post by trulyinfemous on Thu Dec 06, 2012 3:36 am

I think this trade is a bit of a fleece tbh. Cushing is a rare MLB and they are 3 entirely average madden players being moulded into one player.

I'm not sure I like it. I think we'll need to see some more quality on the Bears side or a draft pick to balance it out. However, I am notoriously stingy when it comes to agreeing with trades... If the other guys accept it then cool but I think this is a bit of a tough trade IMO.

With regards to Belcher, I was so upset by the case. He was one of my favourite players, one that I'd often trade for or sign in Madden irrespective of need (he's my 2nd LB in my Madden Franchise). I don't think using him or even trading him is wrong in any case however. What I do think is wrong is how Bish manages to sign FAs (on one year deals) and then trades them. That is literally getting something good for free. Now I understand anyone saying, to counter this, that if the person wanted the player they should've signed them themselves however I can imagine this trade being instigated by Bish (correct me if I'm wrong) and Belcher's stats are good enough to deem worthy of being part of a deal when offered. Its an incredibly shrewd tactic but I think in order to not allow these sorts of deals (which I personally don't like seeing) we should maybe implement a rule that no player (unless CPU draft pick) can be traded within one season of signing with a team.

Thats my opinion on the matter and the trade anyway.
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Re: Texans / Bears Trade

Post by Bishbosh1985 on Thu Dec 06, 2012 7:54 am

Guys - we need to clear up a few things regarding this proposed trade, we really need to deal with facts rather than opinions where possible.

THE SML BELCHER SITUATION AND STRUCTURE OF TRADE PROPOSAL

1) If the Chiefs owner cut Belcher because of the tragic real life incident (and after re-reading his post i assume he did) then its entirely understandable that he is not to be involved in this trade. Lofa Tatupu or another player of HC North Highlands choice can be added - the Texans have several needs.

2) I signed Belcher to start for the Bears - simple as that. The real life incident had absolutely NO bearing on my actions. He was NOT signed for any other reason. The trade came about on chat as North and myself chatted over a period of 2 hours (on and off) about many things as he is new to the league - including the Texans needs. I asked if Cushing could be traded and we then went through options and settled on the above proposal. The Texans need help with several O line positions, FS and CB to name just 3.

Chimpy said "used him to gain an advantage" and Infemous said "Bish manages to sign FA's on 1 year deals and then trades them". Firstly - Infemous - all FA's are 1 year deals, no choice with that. And secondly, let me tell you boys, i have NEVER signed an FA purely for trade purposes. I disagree with that also. This trade came about by chance, not engineered.

Until a rule change - including FA's in trades is totally legal.

Chimpy and Infemous make inaccurate assumptions and whilst opinions on anything game related are normal - OPINIONS ABOUT ANOTHER HEAD COACH SHOULD GO STRAIGHT TO THE COMMISH and not be aired in public:

i.e. Chimpy wrote "even for you Bish, this is horrible" and "i'm not angry Bish, just disappointed." The implication here is clear, that this is ANOTHER dodgy action. Please, what was previously 'dodgy'?

- and Infemous wrote "I can imagine this trade instigated by Bish" (correct me if i'm wrong). Infemous, we all know and admire your honesty in this lge (right or wrong lol) - but what is meant here? because the implication is that i 'engineered' this action.

Infemous, one other thing - since when has Tim Jennings (or Brandon Keith for that matter) been entirely average. OVR's are 82 and 79 and their stats (particularly Jennings) are impressive. Maybe you should check them before making wild assumptions like the 'entirely average' quip.

Brza, Eder and Notorious have posted a very interesting point IMO - the fact that Madden is a game and a COMPLETE disconnect from real life. Just their opinions - BUT - i am more than happy to remove Belcher from this trade - what does HC North think - because his opinion is even more important than guys NOT involved in the trade.

So, hopefully HC North and me can get together on chat later today and re-do the deal unless North wants to use Belcher. If he does, it should stand unless Brza steps in.

And, naturally, if Brza decides anything then his decision will be adhered to, but i suspect the final trade configuration is up to HC North.

Finally - the most important thing an an online franchise is respect. If it is deemed i have acted (albeit unintentionally) disrespectfully where Belcher is concerned i am happy to rewind my actions regarding him.
Similarly, us HC's need to be a little more respectful when it comes to opinions on other guys. Respect is the only constant we need.
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Re: Texans / Bears Trade

Post by brza37 on Thu Dec 06, 2012 10:55 am

First off, I can't speak for anyone else but I don't think any of the comments were meant as personal insults so please don't take anything that was posted above the wrong way. If an issue does need to be cleared please handle it with each other in private.

About the trade, I believe you Bish that Belcher was signed to play MLB but then a better deal came along so you decided to trade him. But since this was also a hotly disputed subject last year and nobody can discern another man's intentions I think we do need a clear ruling. We already have a rule that rookies cannot be traded (as long as the owner made the picks and not the CPU). Signing FAs and then trading them the same season should logically fall into the same category, the issue just never came up in our league before last season so I hadn't thought of adding it to the rules.

There are examples of this happening in the NFL, the Eagles traded a draft pick just this year for a guy the Browns signed off the street. The Eagles also traded a second year player to the Vikings for an UDFA a few years back. But these are the exceptions and not the norm.

In order to avoid future arguments or people hawking the FA list to pick up trade bait (again I'm not saying this is the case here) we should have a clear cut rule that disallows trades of rookies or FAs in their first year with a team.

And about Jennings, I'm not saying he's mediocre in real life. He's better than any of the overpriced scrubs in the Eagles secondary the past two years. But for whatever reason Donny Moore doesn't realize that and he is unjustly rated as just an average DB.

Also, I've said before in trades that I don't think 3 average players are good enough to acquire one superstar. But I'm being more lenient this year to allow for more trades because its not about creating fair or real world acceptable trades its more about ensuring teams aren't being gutted, which I don't think is the case here (someone will have to be substituted for Belcher though because of the FA rule).

Anyway while looking for some real world precedent of multiple average starters being traded for one superstar in his prime I came across this article:
http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/8312966/ranking-players-contracts-national-football-league-part-1
The article doesn't prove a point or anything just thought it might be interesting. Also, real world trades aren't always comparable because who would have thought a player like Asante Samuel would only be worth a 7th rounder. Samuel is rated way better in Madden than he actually plays, a 7th rounder is worth hardly anything in Madden and in Madden you don't have the headcase issues to deal with.

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Re: Texans / Bears Trade

Post by Notorious_MH on Thu Dec 06, 2012 7:00 pm

The think the instant assumption of intentional wrong doing is far more insulting than signing a FA who someone released, regardless of reason.

I won't get into it because it won't get us anywhere but I definitely agree with Bish that there needs to be more respect shown towards other users. As Brza mentioned this happened last season with me when I signed a guy I wanted, only down the road to be offered a good trade for him which I accepted. The insinuation that people snatch up the best players in FA then put them on the trade block is 100% incorrect. So I totally understand where Bish is coming from.

Also as Brza said while we need to stop teams from being gutted of their talent if there is a trade proposed between 2 players and both parties are happy then unless it is an insanely one sided trade then I don't see why it should be blocked, maybe one side adds a little extra value but that's it. If the Texans get 3 starters for 1 then that is a good deal (and I have to play the Bears twice a season so if anyone should be against this it should be me Wink ).

If the rule comes in that trading first year FA signings is illegal then I am completely behind it but without that rule being in place when this trade was proposed I see no wrong doing.
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Re: Texans / Bears Trade

Post by Bishbosh1985 on Thu Dec 06, 2012 7:51 pm

Ok, to try and remove any doubt regarding the trade the Texans and Bears have agreed an amendment to the trade:

Bears trade Jennings (82), Keith (79), Belcher (83) and also add WR Jerome Simpson (81). He will also start for Houston as No2 behind Andre Johnson.

for Texans MLB Cushing.


Assume this has removed any issues.

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Re: Texans / Bears Trade

Post by brza37 on Thu Dec 06, 2012 8:14 pm

I'm ok with the addition of Simpson. Since it wasn't a rule before first year FA signings are allowed in this trade but won't be allowed in the future.

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Re: Texans / Bears Trade

Post by trulyinfemous on Fri Dec 07, 2012 2:12 am

Bish, I'm sorry you took my comments as personal, they were not intended to be so and you are one of my favourite people in any league, so to lead you to an assumption that'd suggest otherwise is a shame and I apologise.

My comment was more based on how I know that no-one would try and trade Cushing or instigate that deal without having them on their block or airing a personal dislike. It was never meant to be taken as anything else.

Jennings on Madden is not very good unfortunately as Brza pointed out. If he played like he did in real life he'd be a 93 OVR at least.

As Brza has laid down the law I will approve the above trade and I am assuming Simpson was signed as an FA last season? Very Happy haha
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Re: Texans / Bears Trade

Post by Bishbosh1985 on Fri Dec 07, 2012 7:19 am

Lol - Simpson was acquired in a trade with the Vikes for BMarsh.

As for the above malarkey, all's well that ends well. Back to our big old SML love-in ... just in time for Xmas. Hurrah! santa

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Re: Texans / Bears Trade

Post by Jimmety on Sat Dec 08, 2012 3:17 pm

Bish, you are scum, and when our teams meet this season, I will eat you. Or I'll program JPP to hit Cutler so hard he goes back in time to Madden 09.

Ho. Ho. Ho.

Very Happy
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